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Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
Started by w.scheveers@xpertise-ict.com at 05-03-2007 4:27. Topic has 18 replies.

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  05-03-2007, 4:27
w.scheveers@xpertise-ict.com is not online. Last active: 5/14/2007 2:27:49 PM w.scheveers@xpertise-ict.com

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Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
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Hi All,

Is it possible to convert an embedded AdobeRGB ICC profile to a sRGB ICC profile with LEAD 14.5
I need this conversion because the only ICC profile that can be used by a web browser to show an image with the profile applied is sRGB.


Thanks.


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  05-03-2007, 15:35
GregR is not online. Last active: 10/10/2008 11:46:18 AM GregR



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Re: Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
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Unfortunately, LEADTOOLS cannot do what you are describing.  LEADTOOLS can only load and save ICC profiles, not convert one to another.

Greg Ross
LEADTOOLS Technical Support
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  08-27-2007, 20:21
Mikef is not online. Last active: 11/21/2007 4:44:24 PM Mikef

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Re: Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
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Is this still the case with 15?

I am surprised if Lead does not yet handle icc color management?

Lead does so many things better than the rest, but this would be the one feature in my mind that has been keeping Lead from being a viable professional product.

 


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  08-28-2007, 8:55
GregR is not online. Last active: 10/10/2008 11:46:18 AM GregR



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Re: Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
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You can load, save, create, and modify ICC profiles in both 14.5 and 15, but there aren't any functions such as "L_ConvertICCProfile" that would allow you to pass an ICC profile and a type of standard profile to convert it to.  You could easily mimick this behavior if you have some default ICC profiles on your machine because you could load a profile and then swap save that profile into a compatible image.

Greg Ross
LEADTOOLS Technical Support
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  08-28-2007, 15:02
Mikef is not online. Last active: 11/21/2007 4:44:24 PM Mikef

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Re: Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
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Thanks Greg,

Maybe I still  do not understand what you are saying?

It would seem like a very bad idea to just swap color profiles out for other ones. This does not mimic converting to a color profile at all.

The purpose of a color profile is to include the rendering intent for color with the file. So if you just change the profile instead of convert the image to it, all you do is mess it up so that someone depending on the profile for rendering intent will now reliably render it incorrectly.

Does Lead plan on supporting full color management in the future?


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  08-31-2007, 14:18
GregR is not online. Last active: 10/10/2008 11:46:18 AM GregR



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Re: Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
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I am not aware of any current plans.  I have made an inquiry to our engineering department about this topic.  I'll post back here when I get more information.

Greg Ross
LEADTOOLS Technical Support
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  09-04-2007, 12:26
GregR is not online. Last active: 10/10/2008 11:46:18 AM GregR



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Re: Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
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There are no plans, but I can submit a feature request for you.  However, I want to be very clear as to what you are wanting to do.  As soon as I know exactly what you are hoping for I'll gladly submit a feature reqeust so we can make plans to implement it.

What kind of profile conversion are you trying to do? 

I'm not an expert on ICC profiles, so perhaps I'm understanding this wrong.  ICC profiles are for converting the underlying bitmap data to display correctly on a specific device like a monitor or printer, correct?  Therefore it would seem that the RGB data doesn't need to change from device to device, just the profile.  Then for red RGB(255, 0, 0) to look the same on multiple devices the ICC profiles of those devices is what does the work for making sure it looks the same on them all.  If that's the case, I'm not seeing why you need to change the bitmap data when you change the color profile when they are both for the same color space (RGB).

Now, if you wanted to convert from an RGB profile to a CMYK profile, I could see why you'd need to convert the bitmap data as well.  Is this the kinds of conversion you're talking about?

Greg Ross
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  09-25-2007, 10:01
tteveris@gspinc.com is not online. Last active: 2/11/2008 3:49:45 PM tteveris@gspinc.com

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Re: Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
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I think what we are looking for are color conversion functions to convert from one colorspace with assigned profile to another colorspace with an assigned profile. This most likely would be only for RGB, CMYK and maybe Lab and XYZ colorspaces.

I have an RGB images who's source profile is sRGB and I want to display this on my calabrated monitor that has a ICC profile assign to it. The color conversion function would convert the RGB image (sRGB colors) to RGBs for the monitor to display. Or better yet take the same image and convert it to a CMYK ink-jet printer using an assigned CMYK ICC profile.

I think that is what we are looking for, or at least I am.

Thanks
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  09-25-2007, 12:15
GregR is not online. Last active: 10/10/2008 11:46:18 AM GregR



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Re: Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
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I have submitted a feature request regarding this functionality.  For your reference, the feature request number is: 878FRQ.  If chosen for implementation, most feature requests are added at major releases (16, 17, etc.).
 
If this is an urgent need, please contact our custom development department by visiting http://www.leadtools.com/devservices/ for a quote.

Greg Ross
LEADTOOLS Technical Support
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  11-21-2007, 12:19
Mikef is not online. Last active: 11/21/2007 4:44:24 PM Mikef

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Re: Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
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Sorry I did not respond earlier. Admittedly I do not check this forum very often K

A color space is not the same as a color model. These terms are often mixed up and it creates lots of confusion.

CMYK and RGB … are color models not color spaces. sRGB, AdobeRGB, ColormatchRGB and US WEB Coated (SWOP) v2 are color spaces.

“A color model is an abstract mathematical model describing the way colors can be represented as tuples of numbers, typically as three or four values or color components (e.g. RGB and CMYK are color models). However, a color model with no associated mapping function to an absolute color space is a more or less arbitrary color system with little connection to the requirements of any given application.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_space

Device color profiles and image color profiles are not the same thing. A device profile profiles the output of the device so that the rendering intent of the device is honored and an image color profile does the same for the image. By comparing both the image and device profile rendering intents can be maintained.

If you swap the color profile of an image you are changing the rendering intent. The device profile needs to match the way the device outputs color. No one would think it a good idea to swap the profile of a printer either unless you also did something to the printer, like change the ink set.

…Like the printer, the image needs to be converted to the target profile if the profile is changed and you don’t want to mess up your rendering intent. This is what Lead does not do and should. It is a big deal to do, and you need a color engine to do it, but it is really important if you want to maintain the rendering intent and say you support color management.

Your developers may find this a useful starting point when they go to look for a color management engine that they can implement.  http://www.littlecms.com/


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  11-26-2007, 9:33
GregR is not online. Last active: 10/10/2008 11:46:18 AM GregR



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Re: Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
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Thanks for the detailed explanation.  I've added your suggestions to the feature request.

Greg Ross
LEADTOOLS Technical Support
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  02-11-2008, 20:59
Spelmer is not online. Last active: 2/14/2008 11:31:23 PM Spelmer

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Re: Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
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I agree with your distinction between a color space and a color model, but don't really understand what you are trying to say Leadtoos can't do. AFAIK Leadtools will let you convert an image from one color space to another by specifying an input profile, an output profile, a rendering intent, and a white point. This of course would be different than simply tagging the image wiht a new profile, which I guess would be called an assignment.

For example you can take an image in an Adobe RGB color space, convert it to an image in a Printer color space, and then send it to the printer. I think this is what you're referring to as converting the image to the target profile.
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  02-13-2008, 11:33
GregR is not online. Last active: 10/10/2008 11:46:18 AM GregR



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Re: Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
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If you are thinking of a specific function that does this, please let me know so I can look into it further and say if that's what the function actually does.  We've got tons of functions so I can't claim to know everything, I'm willing to admit that I can miss stuff sometimes =).

I'm pretty sure that we don't currently have any functions that can convert the bitmap's colors based on an ICC profile.  I've asked my manager and he's pretty sure of the same which is why I submitted the feature request.  If the function already existed, the engineers should have let me know by now.

Greg Ross
LEADTOOLS Technical Support
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  02-14-2008, 18:56
Spelmer is not online. Last active: 2/14/2008 11:31:23 PM Spelmer

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Re: Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
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L_ClrInit() and L_ClrConvert()

Init sets the parameters -- the input and output profiles along with the rendering intent and white point and Convert does the conversion of the bitmap using those parameters.

On a completely different matter, could you answer my question about deployment? TIA

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  02-15-2008, 11:56
GregR is not online. Last active: 10/10/2008 11:46:18 AM GregR



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Re: Converting Adobe RGB ICC profile to sRGB profile
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These functions are close, but not exactly what the feature request was for.  These functions convert the colors to based on the color models specified on the documentation page for L_ClrInit.  The feature request was basically to add functionality like this, but instead of having predefined color spaces like in L_ClrInit, he wants to specify an input and output ICC profile.

As for the other issue, it's in our queue and I'll look at it and answer on that post.

Greg Ross
LEADTOOLS Technical Support
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